It’s Not Misogynistic To Criticize Objectively True Things About Women

One of the most interesting aspects of the incelosphere is the spotlight it shines on female behavior/female sexuality.

I was ranting about hybristophilia and the prevalence male sociopaths in female-centric media, male financial objectification, and the fetishization of male violence long before the incelosphere ever captured my interest.

When I lurk on incel forums or incel subreddits what stands out to me the most is this: they are noticing the same things I’ve been noticing for years. For years, I have been screaming into the void, while romance/erotica writers call me a “hater” a “troll” or a “pick me.” It’s infuriating to see male violence consistently fetishized, and then the same women getting wet to 50 Shades or amazon rape smut will scream about toxic masculinity. What if the so-called toxic masculinity is, in part, a response to the female gaze? What if female sexuality encourages male aggression and male violence in both subtle and explicit ways?

“Littleton, Colorado, USA – July 20, 2012: A portion of the Columbine High School Massacre Memorial wall.”

I very much believe that male aggression and violence is, at least partly, a response to the female gaze. When women lust after violence, aggression, and emotional damage, we reinforce that these are positive characteristics. We tell fiction writers they must be responsible in portraying marginalized groups, because we all recognize that fiction has an influence on real-world attitudes. But that same logic doesn’t extend to the fetishization of male violence. The worst part is, Eric Harris bragged in his journal about all the fans he would have after he committed the massacre. He knew idiot women would get wet to the horrific murders of his classmates. And if you get off to fetishized male violence, you are also culpable here.

So a good portion of women get off to male violence. Somehow it is considered misogynistic to point this phenomena out.

I don’t feel it is misogynistic. It’s pointing out a true thing. A true thing is just….true? I’m so close to channeling Ben Shapiro right now.

Pointing out this terrible phenomena is an attempt to solve a problem. My ultimate goal is to shame my fellow women into getting it the fuck together. I’m absolutely not bothered when incels or anyone in the manosphere poke fun at female sexuality. It’s one of my favorite things on the internet. They’re the only men who can see what’s up.

Feminists argue that it is misogynistic to point out that women get off to deranged and violent men. Well….. they do? If you’re triggered, you are probably one of those women that gets off to that. Why would you be upset about that being pointed out, unless you secretly have violent fantasies of male domination? If you’re like me, and plenty of other women who find hybristophilia quite disgusting and harmful to both men and women, then you would be happy to see other people point it out. You’d want to see the world stop normalizing it.

Incels are not misogynistic for noticing things that are objectively true, to a horrifyingly large extent, about female sexuality.

Women Get Wet To Male Violence

Data scientist Dr. Stephen-Davidowitz analyzed data from Pornhub and found that women searched for abusive and violent porn, where the women is forced into sex or caused extreme pain, twice as often as men.

62% of women have rape fantasies.

Women Get Wet To Money and Love Men Opportunistically

Women Get Wet To Mean and Controlling Men

A study by Carter et al provides evidence that women find men possessing Dark Triad traits more attractive.

There is evidence that males who are bullies during childhood have greater romantic/sexual success with women later on.

Bully romance is a whole ass subgenre….

Women Care About Looks Over Personality

Below is the ‘atomic blackpill.’ A Tinder experiment conducted by guys in the manosphere. They used a typical ‘Chad’ picture to see how much terrible shit they could get away with saying. The results are terrifying.

And again, I’ll steal a tactic from the feminists here: You’re only mad if this describes you.

“Wah…you don’t need to say “Not all Men” and the only reason you would want to is if YOU are one of the men we’re talking about!” Fuck you, feminists. Take some of your own medicine please. If you are a woman who doesn’t do any of the shit that I’ve described, then good for you. Go off. I’m speaking in general terms. Obviously. I’m not saying every single human female on the planet does this. We’re talking about widespread trends.

If it’s okay for women to point out widespread poor male behavior, then it should be okay for men to point out widespread poor female behavior. It is not misogynistic to point out true shit. It just isn’t!

So, yeah, I think it’s pretty funny when incels notice the weirdness of female sexuality. Because mainstream female sexuality is ridiculous and deserves to be mocked.

If you masturbated to 50 Shades, a book that fetishizes male emotional damage, you deserve to be mocked. You should feel bad that you get wet to fixing broken men. You’re fucked up. How horrible a way to objectify men. How absolutely vile.

If you read amazon smut that includes rape or coercion, you deserve to be mocked. It makes me mad as hell to see women getting off to rape. Those same women will turn around and shriek at incels for putting rape fantasies on their forums. Like, sis, WHAT?? They’re doing the exact same thing as you. There’s such a damn outrage disconnect. Nobody should be eroticizing or glorifying rape: men or women. I’m not excusing the men who do it. I’m saying you’re a hypocrite if you masturbate to rape and then get triggered by men larping as rapists online. And if you’re angry at edgy incels, you need to save a good dose of outrage for the romance/erotica community.

Check out the list of Top 100 Romance Novel on Goodreads. Aside from the absolute lack of male body diversity (yet, we want to turn around and tell men looks don’t matter??), we have a Judith McNaught novel….we have titles that include words like “Bully” and “Bastard” and “Mine.” Women want asshole, controlling men. This is why two of the most popular romance series of all time are 50 Shades and Twilight. Violent and controlling men. One is a billionaire and one is a vampire. 

And people always want to come at me telling me I’m cherry picking. If you are legit going to come at me and say that controlling, dickish men with the hint of violence ever-present in each interaction with the heroine, are NOT the most popular romance novels, that they don’t make up the bulk of romance novels, then I’m going to need you to prove that. The most popular, most mainstream romance novels are the ones with controlling, asshole men who might hurt the protagonist. The ones that become household names.

It’s true that not all women read romance, but if you’re actually reading and not skimming, you’ll notice I’ve included links to studies and stats that prove the most problematic attitudes of the romance genre are acted out in real life. The lack of outrage over the romance/erotica genres is an indicator of how normalized the fetsihization of male violence is.

We teach little girls from a very young age that a man who might hurt you is the romantic ideal.

In Beauty and the Beast the Beast physically threatens Belle. Her body language in the following scene is of someone who fears for their physical safety.

But…I guess it’s cool….since he saved her from the wolves and all….

The fact that the scene with the wolves happens so quickly after Belle flees the castle in terror makes me think the proximity of these scenes is intentional on some level. The message here is: a dangerous man is a strong man, a man who can protect you.

To be completely honest, growing up in a world drenched in fetishized male violence like this, I’m not surprised women love bad boys. I’m not surprised women get off to rebels. I’m not surprised that the calm, peaceful, cooperative men struggle to find romantic companionship. And I’m not surprised that when those men end up on incel forums losing their shit, women start finding them attractive. Our world is full of signals, in movies, books, and in everyday interactions, framing assertive and obnoxious men as the ideal, and passive, quiet, and agreeable men as boring, desperate, and weak. A Brock University Study shows that men with psychopathic traits are more likely to be deemed attractive by women. The study frames it as the men are just more charming and know how to manipulate. I’m not buying it. I think women are conditioned to go for men who are loud and bombastic, over introverted men, even if that comes with some creepy or controlling behaviors.

Is that the world we want to live in? A world that rewards aggressive and emotionally-unhinged men, while punishing the passive and sweet men. A world that conditions little girls who then grow up into women who are titillated by male violence?

We can’t be angry at incels for being so damn edgy unless we’re also going to be mad at the women who get off to that edgy behavior. If you’re defending the violence in the romance genre, then you have no standing to ever criticize online male misogyny. You’d be a hypocrite.

“There are 5 types of male monsters…”

So, unapologetically, I will continue to think it’s absolutely hysterical when men notice how fucking deviant female sexuality is.

Because I want it to change.

I want it to change so that women are more likely to have relationships with men who respect them and treat them well. I don’t want women to be hurt, killed, emotionally abused, intimidated, or even disrespected by the men they love. I know it’s not the politically-correct opinion to hold women accountable for their choices. I don’t care. If this generation of women made a conscious effort to stop fetishizing violent men and to stop objectifying men in general, the next generation of girls and women would be primed to make better choices.

I want it to change so that less children grow up in abusive homes. Women selecting men with aggressive personalities leads to not only women, but also children being abused. I believe the effects of widespread domestic violence and child abuse probably echo out into society on a scale we can’t even imagine. How much better would the world be after two or three generations of women actively deciding to flip the switch on what they find attractive in men?

I want it to change so that less good and decent men live lonely and terrible lives. Good and decent men shouldn’t be incels. And I don’t just mean the self-described ones on the internet. I mean all the lonely male virgins who would never call themselves an incel, but the term fits their life circumstance.

I want it to change because women just look damn stupid if you look at female-centric media.

Shame is a powerful tool for shaping human behavior. So, damn right, I want men to laugh at women. And I’m gonna laugh at women.

Because a world with Columbine fangirls, incel groupies, women sending love letters to murderers and child rapists, is a world that we all need to be laughing at. It’s ridiculous. And the most ridiculous part is that all of those supposedly deviant women aren’t really that deviant at all. They have simply taken incredibly mainstream aspects of female sexuality and followed them to their logical conclusion.

We live in a world that fetishizes bad and broken boys. And that’s really all the Columbine fangirls, incel groupies, and death-row letter writers are doing. They’ve done exactly what they’ve been conditioned to do from childhood; found the most broken and bad boys to lust over.

20 Comments

  1. Well, that was quite the rant. 🙂 Of course, there is more than a little truth to what you say here, but it’s more complicated I think than you are making it out to be.Where to start. First of all, even though I’m presently writing a fantasy (time travel thing), all women don’t read romance or even mainstream fiction. And you seem to think we all read that stuff. We read and write literary fiction a lot. Quite a few of us. 🙂 With much more complex characters and relationships. (Though Pam Houston’s Cowboys are My Weakness is a literary book I love that may reinforce the point you are trying to make–literary or not– I never read or saw Fifty Shades–I should just for a frame of reference these days — sort of like reading Shakespeare or the Bible — ha–so many references to it) I’m a woman, but the term “feminist” annoys me. Women often pick men like their fathers which often turns out badly–especially if they drink.I would have to wonder some about the women you yourself pick–I’m not certain you aren’t OVER-generalizing. Because I would say the woman you describe is both pretty young and still probably amounts to about 1/4 or less of women. And they outgrow those qualities pretty fast. Before I started hanging with male literary writers, men seemed either the alpha male type or too wimpy and not much choice out there — until I met some literary writers who had amazing intellects and were challenges (and HOT) in that way–though language can be violent, make no mistake! I think the thing that makes me the most uncomfortable about your rant is that it sounds too much like the old male stand-by–she deserved it–she really wants it — nice guys finish last — where I think that type of woman is more a rarity than you seem to. Women need to evolve, too, I’m sure, though a world of all puritans is scary –they say Hitler was not sexual. 🙂 I’m not sure women have to ugly up at all, maybe she can care about her looks, TOO, but just rely more on her other qualities and look for better ones in their mates. But there is no reason women need to change first! Be the guy you want to be and you’ll attract that kind of woman. And see a lot more of them. My grandmother used to tell me that (in reverse, of course). I will admit, though, I think men have a difficult road to negotiate and never more than now when the Me Too types are re litigating men’s whole lives when the rules were different. And like you say, she doesn’t want wimpy. You never see (or hardly ever) a male character in a movie ASK her if he can kiss her(she will say in the movie–don’t ASK me– if he should do such a thing) no–he shoves her up against the wall–only after he can be 100% sure she wants him as much as he wants her. Right. It was always tough being a guy and It’s getting tougher out there. So I feel for you male types. (I haven’t heard Ben Shapiro talk on that topic, I don’t think.) 🙂 Fun read.

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    1. You also ignored all the stats about actual female behavior and acted like the whole thing was about the romance genre. Even if not all women read romance, the attitudes are obviously seeping into the real world. So normalizing violent/aggressive male love interests, at the very least, should be shamed out of practice.

      It’s incredibly rude that you assumed my gender.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. You bet it counts for less than 1/4 of women. I included stats.
      And you’re making guesses. The stats I included prove that women who lust after violent men are not rare.
      I don’t think these women are rare, because I have real damn studies proving they aren’t rare.

      you…..know what a statistic is right??

      I’m not working with anecdotal evidence.

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  2. p.s. “male financial objectification.” Is that like objectifying women’s bodies? She only cares about how much money he makes? Ah, I’ve thought about that one a long time myself and it does not equate. Men just care about her body–not really a good side to that. HOWEVER, when a woman admires a man financially there are a lot of other qualities attached to that–his intellect, creativity, his responsibility, his perseverance. Self-discipline. I could go on and on — all things that she SHOULD be looking for in a relationship. So it’s not just about the money…

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    1. How about this? When a cares about a woman’s body, he is not just caring about her body. There are a lot of other good qualities attached to that! If she has large breasts, she is fertile. If she is thin and fit, she is disciplined and takes care of herself, she is feminine, she is detail-oriented. I could go on and on. All things he SHOULD be looking for in a relationship. So it’s not just about her looks….

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  3. Great article.

    Out of these, the only one that landed for me was “women care about looks over personality.” This was certainly true when I was younger. I even was aware of it, and kind of frustrated with myself for it, but couldn’t change. At least not instantly. I do think this is a feature that we grow out of as we mature. Or … we are supposed to. Also, the longer we are around a person, their character influences how we perceive their looks. Again, this comes with maturity.

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    1. It does change as we spend more time around the person. But all that means is that men must meet a minimum looks threshold to even be considered by women.

      I’ve spent the past year lurking on incel forums and talked to incels whenever the opportunity presented itself. These are men languishing in misery and self-loathing. Some of them are really smart, funny, and interesting guys. And one of their biggest beefs is that the world keeps lying to them and telling them looks down’t matter. I feel terrible for them.

      If we women are superficial, then the least we could do is admit it and stop gaslighting these poor guys.

      They aren’t wrong when they say that of course women care about personality to an extent. But that only matters if you aren’t ugly to begin with.

      As for the maturity thing, it isn’t right to expect ugly men to wait until they are in their 30s or older to find a partner and not be resentful. I understand incel resentment and feel they’re quite justified in it.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Yeah that is true that men must meet a minimum threshold of looks doot doot doot. Although, as you’ve pointed out in your fiction, often they don’t think they meet that threshold when in fact they do. And I do definitely think we should acknowledge that it’s a problem for guys as well. Though the number of truly ugly men, just like the number of truly ugly women, I would say is very small.

        I spent years thinking I was ugly because my standard of beauty was a skinnier Disney’s Pocahontas and I am more like … I dunno, Shirley Temple without the dancing ability. This was re-enforced when no guys seemed to be interested. In retrospect, there were a bunch of complex reasons for that but I chalked them all up to being personally unattractive. I wonder if many incels are having the same experience.

        And I do agree that there is an immaturity problem in our larger culture when you have a bunch of people in their 20s who are still judging each other on looks like 14 year olds.

        Part of the problem is that through our entertainment culture, we have all these images of beautiful people to skew our sense of what is attractive. Many people don’t photograph well, but are perfectly attractive when you meet them in person. And even people who do photograph well often don’t look like their photos IRL.

        Another problem might be fragmentation. Most of us don’t grow up with the same circle of people, get to know someone, and know them for years. Instead, we have to make snap judgments about virtual strangers, whether online or in person. This disadvantages people who are less attractive or polished.

        OK, sermon over.

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  4. P.S. I haven’t really known how to respond to the point you keep making about “financial objectification,” because I’m kind of … only halfway with you?

    I do agree that there is something wrong when a man’s wealth overrides other considerations like compatibility or friendship. I don’t get the whole billionaire romance thing, because my knowledge of really wealthy people (drawn entirely from fiction) tells me that they live in their own version of a demanding and cutthroat society.

    That said … as a mom … it is really, really, insanely difficult for one person all by herself to take care of small children and also support them and herself financially. I would go so far as to say that for most people, it is impossible to do both well. Caring for babies and small children is just a really all-consuming job. So, for any woman who wants to have a child … let alone more than one … it really is kind of important that the kids’ dad not only be a dad who is present in their lives, but also one who is able to keep the family afloat during those “little years.” If the dad cannot do that, the stress on the mom – hence on the kids – is going to skyrocket.

    Also, if a woman does not work FT (or maybe even at all) outside the home during our kids’ toddler and baby years, that really does change our career path. Let’s be realistic … it will change our earning potential, probably for life.

    So yeah, I really, really, appreciate my husband for doing a demanding job that allows me to stay home and educate my kids … and pursue my writing, which might one day make me some money, but could never support an entire family.

    I’m not saying that a guy has to be making enough to support a family when a couple first gets married. There’s a long tradition of young couples being extremely poor during the first few years and struggling through together. But, I do think that any woman who wants to be a mom needs to seek a guy who has good work habits, good enough social skills not to get fired every few months, and at least an incipient skill set, and who understands that his wife will not always be able to “contribute 50%” to the family budget in the direct sense of bringing in a paycheck. Who understands that child rearing a really difficult job in an of itself, and anyone who is doing the lion’s share of it is, in fact, contributing to the family. Otherwise, you are just setting yourself up for a world of stress.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I think women need to consider some of the problematic implications of seeking out men with good social skills.
      As a woman married to an aspie man, I have to point out: good social skills does not correlate to how reliable a man is.

      And with the staggering numbers of autistic men in incel communities, I think women need to consider how the implicit biases they’re bringing to the dating marketing might actually be ableist as fuck.

      I respect you and your opinion. I’m just not with you at all here and this is something I care about deeply.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Yeah I get that. When I referenced social skills I wasn’t really thinking of aspie type behavior. Some people are so combative or have such authority issues that it causes them to quarrel with their coworkers or bosses and cycle through jobs at an alarming rate. That’s more what I was thinking of. And that’s actually more a characteristic of the aggressive, touchy, alpha male that you have pointed out has been made such an ideal.

        My impression is that aspies are perfectly capable of keeping a job as long as the requirements align with their skill set.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Sorry! I’m so overly defensive for aspie dudes. Yes, I agree if men are aggressive or starting fights, then yeah, women should be wary of dating them.

        And yeah, aspie men kill it in the tech field lol

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  5. Oops, I forgot to agree with your main point, which is that making a specific criticism of one or more members of a group is NOT the same thing as having an -ism against that group generally. This is huge misunderstanding that gets weaponized all the time, as I’m sure you’ve noticed.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Yes, I definitely agree. That’s why it bothers me that people call incels misogynists. Making a specific criticism isn’t sexism. Some of them are sexists, sure. But there are plenty of incels that are just noticing trends about female behavior. Female behavior affects their quality of life, so I think they have a right to criticize it.

      But apparently I’m a misogynist too for thinking that….so….hence the ranty blog post lol

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  6. Oh yeah I agree that male sociopaths are way too prevalent in female led media- to the point where I feel like some writers don’t get that female sociopaths exist too. And that’s an interesting point about female lust and male violence- some women do get off on it (though I think it’s important to recognise that for the vast majority there’s a major difference between fantasy and what they want in reality). And I agree that it should be alright to point out poor behaviour across the board- whether it’s coming from men or women- it’s not equality to pretend women have no faults. Lol at you channelling some Ben Shapiro as well.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Oh, yeah, of course not all women get off to this stuff. I mean, I’m a female and I don’t. I’m not perfect or anything, but hybristophilia isn’t my thing (I have other things-I’m a flawed human too). I’ll agree that there is a difference between fantasy and reality to an extent, but what concerns me are the studies and stats I included (and there are many more-I’d recommend anyone interested in this stuff to checkout the blackpill science page of the incel wiki-they really curated a lot of great academic studies) that show women in real life choose men with dark triad traits or have aggressive personalities. I don’t take the biological essentialism stance-I don’t think women are biologically wired to find aggressive and violent men attractive-I believe this is due to decades of conditioning. And I just don’t think it’s fair to women or men. And yeah, lol, Ben Shapiro is the best: Facts don’t care about your feelings! ❤

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I always want to clarify that, so people don’t think I’m pulling some not-like-the-other-girls stuff. I think it’s all socialization. And women are awesome ❤ I love other women, and it bugs me a lot when I'm accused of misogyny for pointing out problematic trends.

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